« The most underreported story today: Russia’s systematic meddling in the Presidential election | Main | Mainstream media lies and the closing of the American conservative mind »

November 15, 2016

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Martin

You mention the Republican party as being "the the party of Anglo-Saxon conservatism, that is of Edmund Burke.."
I am not at all sure this philosophy can be attributed to any one ethnic group. Burke himself was Anglo-Irish, many of the signers of the US Declaration were Scots, or Scots-Irish as were many US Presidents.Celtic statesmen had an enormous influence on American political philosophy, which cannot be labeled as "Anglo-Saxon"

Designating conservative internet sites as about 80% useless is harsh in my opinion. It is the mass oriented main line TV and print organizations that have been exposed as Democratic
sympathizers, or outright operatives; their analysis, polls and predictions have been spectacularly wrong. It will be some time before credibility can be restored to these sources. Readers must weigh carefully different stories and comments, but not all conservative sites are faulty. A healthy degree of skepticism is required in digesting any current news information or commentary.

Cincinnatus

Very perceptive comment Martin. You are of course correct about Burke. What I mean by "Anglo-Saxon conservatism" is the conservative ideology practiced in the English speaking world that is distinct from the conservatism on the Continent. There is a huge different between the two. The former sort of conservatives are the champions of freedom. The latter sort are authoritarians and fascists.

bmatkin

Wow, you still on the neverTrump schlock?
Let me put it to you this way.
The Republicans have the WH, the congress 32 state governors, 67 state legislative bodies, the majority of the elected officials like Sec. of state etc.
You're assuming a lot. You obviously thought Trump would lose and now you're just looking for "I told you so" moment.
It is my understanding that Trump got the same Latino votes as Romney and picked up black votes.
Trump, as you have stated many, many times isn't conservative. He's a populist and can more to whatever direction he needs to stay relevant and ahead of the curve.
Conservatism as you describe is dead. Not the principles, the name. The left has isolated it, boxed it, attacked it and smeared it. The word conservative now sounds like a bible thumping preacher word which turns a lot of people off. Trump doesn't.
I expect the exact opposite in 2018. I expect a bigger Republican win and even some blue state victories.

Martin

Yes I know what you mean, and there are labels to cover that.
British, Anglo-American,and so on. Anglos-Saxon just does not cover the northern part of the UK adequately and people there have had a disproportionate influence on English speaking philosophy.

Cincinnatus

Dear Martin:

Point taken. IN the future I will use the phrase "Anglo-American conservatism".

Cincinnatus

Dear Bmatkin:

1. I did not assume Trump would lose, I feared he might win. There is a difference.

2. Winning is not the same as being right. That is also a difference.

3. I agree with you that Trump is not a conservative. But if this is the case, what reason would I have for supporting him?

4. Alternate explanation for Trump's increase in minority votes: the multiracial Obama is much more appealing to minorities (especially African-Americans) than an old, entitled white woman. Trump's vote goal was the same as Romney. Hillary got a LOT fewer votes than Obama. Trump won because Hillary lost.

5. I fight for conservative principles, and fight against opposite principles. Therefore I intend to battle the odious Trump vigorously and often until he is in the ash heap of history.

6. A GOP pick-up in the 2018 midterms would only happen if Trump's presidency were successful. Given what we know about Trump, this is not the way to bet, but I would be the most relieved wrong person in history if that ended up being the case.

Mark

Autoguy

The key here is to see how Trump does.
Will he be soft on Putin's ambitions? Will he remove the regulatory barriers to job creation? Will he stick to his campaign promises?
We now simply have to sit back and watch. All of the prognostications are going to be tested by reality.
I believe that to be a better thing than if Hillary had been elected. Hopefully I'm right.

Cincinnatus

Hi Autoguy:

First up is who the Secretary of Stae will be. Some of those rumoured to eb considered are good. Some are atrocious. We shall see...

monkey

Generally concur. I would describe myself as more a moderate conservative, sort of similar to John Kasich, but I do not think Donald Trump's win will bode well for conservatism in the long-run. The demographics he was strongest amongst are declining in numbers and even if he wins them by bigger margins next time around that can only work so long.

Had Clinton won instead, I believe it would have been good for the GOP. This would mean in 2018 winning a bigger majority in the house, likely getting a filibuster proof GOP senate, and holding the majority of state legislatures which is important as who wins them gets to re-district (BTW I oppose gerrymandering by either side, the boundaries should be drawn by a neutral independent body like they are in Canada and UK). And with the Democrats controlling the white house for 12 years, the GOP likely would have won in 2020 and be in a good position to move ahead on its agenda.

Instead, if Trump is even half as bad as he has suggested the GOP will lose the house, will have a tough time picking up senate seats and possibly lose a few and almost certainly lose it in 2020. And the next Democrat leader will likely be a progressive in the mode of Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders not a centrist like Hillary Clinton. I actually said to some of my progressive friends, a Donald Trump win could be the best thing for them as things like single payer health care, $15 minimum wage, and free college were DOA had Hillary Clinton won due to GOP control of the house while in 2020 if Democrats control both they just might be able to pass it. Finally in the long-run, the GOP still cannot be a whites only party, it needs to do better amongst minorities and some groups like Latinos and Asians are naturally conservative leaning so those are groups the GOP should win not lose yet choosing someone as toxic as Trump could permanently damage the GOP amongst non-whites and even hurt them amongst college educated whites.

On foreign policy, he is scary. Interesting in Europe that far right leaders like Le Pen and Geert Wilders are actually being backed by Putin much like Trump. Putin is not someone who cares about the West, whomever he supports is whomever he thinks will weaken the West most which is what he wants so if Putin is happy that is probably a bad sign. I suspect in your home country Estonia many are terrified of Trump since despite being a NATO member there is no guarantee he would defend them if attacked by Russia, which off course Putin would love to do if he could get away with it.

bmatkin

Dear Cinncinn cynic.
How does one advance a world wide conservative renewal if the Sup. Court of the US is full of Globalist, progressive hacks?
Never trumpers like you never answer the question.
How does the US become conservative when it is flooded with illegals, disrespects the rule of law, uses weaponized government agencies to harass its opposition etc.
After answering that, how does the world become more conservative without the US moving in that direction.
You have become illogical and self serving. Grow up.
You have not even give Trump a chance to do the right thing, as if Hillary would have ever done the right thing.
I shake my head in disbelief. Conservatism as a word is dead, it has a negative connotation to most people thanks to the Progressive newspeak attack.
If Trump just puts conservatives on the court, restricts illegal immigration, stops trying to help the Islamists like Obama has, and shrinks government, it is more than any other so-called conservative has ever done.

Cincinnatus

Hi Monkey:

I am a right-wing conservative but I agree with almost everything you wrote in your analysis. I agree that the Trump win may end up being a Pyrrhic victory for the GOP - for pretty much all he reasons you listed. I will only add that long after Trump is gone, the Dems will hang the Trump name around every Republican they can, the way the GOP tied every Dem to Jimmy Carter for decades.

And yes, in Estonia, they are terrified. The western liberal order that Ronald Reagan forged is coming apart. Too many people take for granted the historically anomalous peaceful times we live in. This goes especially for conservatives, who are baying at the moon about comparatively trivial incidents.

Cincinnatus

Dear Bmatkin:

First of all you contradict yourself. You describe Trump as not a conservative at all but then hold him up as some kind of a conservative standard-bearer. I will believe that when I see it.

With regard to giving him a chance, did you give Barack Obama a chance when he won his much more impressive victory? Or did you, like me, assume (correctly) that he was a closet socialist and attack him from day one?

With regard to why I don't like Trump, read my anti-Trump articles. I have been very explicit in my reasons. As I have tirelessly pointed out, the problem is world peace. Having a dictator-lover like Trump in charge of the world's biggest liberal democracy is like throwing a lit match into a gas station. This issue is simply far, far more important that the supreme court of any one country. And that's assuming that he is 100% reliable on delivering on that. (I have my doubts on that score.)

bmatkin

Dear Cinn:
What?
You're still telling us all that you would have preferred a criminal (Hildabeast) in the white house with a radical supreme court, a weaponized bureaucracy, an open border, more disasters like Obama's policy in Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, Iran.. hell the whole world.
That's what you're telling us.
You don't have any real reasons for not liking Trump, just the same old rehash of the MSM propaganda.
Fine,like the neverTrump crew and the rest of the establishment types you have become largely irrelevant. So be it.

Cincinnatus

Dear bmatkin:

There is no need to speculate about my reasons. I have been very forthright about them, and I am happy to entertain specific counterarguments.

As far as all the Hillary/Obama stuff you mentioned, that is most definitely a concern, but a lesser worry than peace in Europe and the breakdown of the liberal world order.

These would have been paramount factors for me with any other Republican candidate (except for Rand Paul). But with the nomination of Trump, I am only working out the least-worst option as best I can. If the GOP serves me up a shit sandwich, I have no obligation to eat it.

bmatkin

Dear Cinn:
One last question. Have you rubbed your face in a bowl of Cheetos lately???

Cincinnatus

Ha ha :)

monkey

My other concern here is worry Trump's win will hurt the conservative cause in Canada which I don't want. Trudeau's government has been fiscally irresponsible yet with Trump's unpopularity in Canada and the fact too many associate him with conservatism (he is not one especially here in Canada) I feel attention to Trudeau's poor economic performance is being ignored and thus why he still has sky high approval ratings. As much as many Conservatives may not like the Democrats, we actually tend to do better electorally when the Democrats rather than Republicans are in power. The Republicans are a bit too far right for your key swing voter so it helps when the Liberals cannot use that to attack the Conservatives. That doesn't mean the Conservatives cannot win in 2019, far from it, but a Trump win doesn't help.

By contrast with Hillary Clinton, I think that would have been better for Conservatives in terms of winning. Unlike Obama, she is not nearly as popular in Canada so Trudeau wouldn't get any brownie points by cozying up to her. And unlike Sanders she wouldn't adopt any hard left policies (with Sanders my worry is it would embolden progressives to go further left as one of the few things holding back the left in Canada is we have to stay competitive with the US). That being said had John Kasich become president, I think it might have worked on our favour as he is more in line with Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush and we had no trouble winning when they were in power.

On foreign policy, Trump is definitely a gift for Putin and I suspect even China is happy as he will probably move up the timetable as to when China's GDP surpasses the US. What Mitt Romney said last March about him was bang on IMHO.

Cincinnatus

Hi Monkey:

When MItt first came on the scene I didn't like him much. I thought he was a spineless RINO.

But he keeps making one good call after another.

monkey

Cincinnatus - I think Romney was more a flip flopper than anything. The problem he faced is Massachusetts is a very liberal state and you cannot win as governor unless you are RINO. Lets remember the last Republican to even crack the 40% mark in that state was George HW Bush in 1988 and the last to win it was Ronald Reagan. It was the only state other than DC to vote for George McGovern in 1972.

Off course to win the GOP primary you have to move to the right as those who vote in primaries in both parties tend to be more ideological than your median American voter. When it came to the general election the US as a whole is more conservative than Massachusetts but not as conservative as those voting in the GOP primary thus why he flip flopped on so many issues.

Now Ted Cruz who is the candidate I believe you backed had a much easier time as he is from Texas which is a conservative state so you can run on an unabashedly conservative platform and win there. So I think that was probably more the reason he was a RINO is it was about electability as governor rather than actually being a RINO. Pretty much any recent governor from a solid blue state will likely be a RINO otherwise they would never win.

Autoguy

Folks, the speculation is fun but a waste of time. Watch how he does and comment by Canada day - by then we should know.
Anyone who says they KNOW what Trump is going to do is off their meds. Some of us think that Clinton would have been (much) worse, some of us think that Trump is worse. We will find out in a short while.
Lastly, the only thing that I am truly grateful for is that the establishment GOP got HAMMERED this election. Too many promises broken to their base and the electorate in general. They finally got their comeuppance.

Cincinnatus

Dear Autoguy:


So let me paraphrase your argument, anybody who says at this point in time that he knows Trump will be a good President is "off his meds".

P.S. Most GOP senate candidates achieved higher vote totals than Trump. Paul Ryan was reelected with 65% of the vote.

Cincinnatus

Dear Monkey:

Good point.

Autoguy

Cincinnatus - Yep, absolutely. Trump is a wild card and only time will tell.
P.S. The GOP senate candidates that 'ran away' from Trump had serious issues on election night, and that includes the ones that failed in their re-election bid. Paul Ryan didn't exactly run away from Trump, he was lukewarm.

Cincinnatus

Dear Autoguy:

Of the three GOP senators who disavowed Trump and lost, all had the same vote total as Trump or slightly higher.

Autoguy

Yep, but they lost and he won. Kinda the point there...

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

Your Information

(Name and email address are required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

e-mail address

Blog powered by Typepad
Member since 02/2008

Blogging Tories

  • Blogging Tories